Hot new interview with myself!
Even
though it is surely unnecessary to introduce the net.art classic Vuk Cosic,
there are
still a few basic details to stress before beginning this most interesting
dialogue.
Born in Belgrade, Yugoslavia in 1966, he left the city in 1991 on the
same day as he
graduated in archaeology. After spending several months in Trieste, Italy,
he moved to
Ljubljana, Slovenia, where he still lives. The main reason we asked Vuk
to talk to us was
his recent appearance in the venerable Venice Biennale where he represened
Slovenia.
We met at Vuk's study that he shares with Irena Wölle, his partner
in life and mother of
their 10 month old daughter, Luna. The simple computer room in Vuk and
Irena's centrally
located loft is full of evidence that two very dynamic careers are run
from that space.
Vuk Cosic: First let me thank you for finding time for us in your massively
busy
schedule. I understand that you live several ongoing lives at once. Could
we start
with that? What is it that you really do? What does a net.artist actually
do on a daily
basis?
Vuk Cosic: Yeah, sorry to keep you waiting with this thing, I just couldn't
manage before.
It is true that other than having a young baby at home and somehow running
this silly
art thing I also work with a web development firm here in Ljubljana, and
we make
mainstream commercial web sites. It is an interesting and often challenging
job – as
they say – because it brings the constructive imperative, rather
than the position of
critique. The job pays a couple of bills, but mostly it is great for keeping
up with web
technologies and being in touch with the ways in which all of that is
developing. It is one
thing to be simply interested in privacy or copyright, for instance, and
entirely another to
go around consulting a paying client on how to deal with it. My net.art
background with
all its values attached gives me a bit of an edge, and an obvious ideological
basis, so
the suggestions I make occasionally bring us to quite amusing but also
socially
interesting hybrids. Not many other people in my position would push corporations
to
really think of the users, and publish really usefull stuff there. That
kind of thing.
Vuk Cosic: OK, I gather you feel fine about the job then....
Vuk Cosic: Exactly. It is nice work, plus there's this distance from the
art world.
Vuk Cosic: Just the thing I was thinking of asking you. How do you keep
up with
events in art? Do you simply work at night and never sleep, or do you
have another
secret?
Vuk Cosic: No, I have honestly found a way to discretely position myself
at a safe
distance from where I can follow whatever I see fit, and also choose not
to get mud on
my shoes if it's not what I want. The serious reason for me to look for
such a detached
position was something that has damaged lots of good young people in arts
around me.
The annual rhythm of festivals, biennials and other spectacles that an
artist simply has
to participate in is in my view imposing a dynamics that not everybody
is interested in. I
have seen friends go through hell just to make submission deadlines and
their work
consequently suffered. I have lived like that for a year or two, been
to each and every
festival you have heard of, but it is not a choice I would suggest to
someone who is a
friend.
I am still working a bit, on semi-secret projects or on commissions and
I am also living a
nice life in spite of that.
Vuk Cosic: Now you are saying you are still working. What has happened
about your
retirement? You have not only previously declared the death of net.art
but also your
personal retirement from it. How does that work?
Vuk Cosic: I am sure that you are counting on some prepared answer to
this. The truth is
that I just don't call myself a net.artist and the retirement thing only
had – and still has
– the purpose to stress that the so called heroic period of net.art
is over (and everybody
knows it) and to help the idea of detaching myself from the art routine.
Heath [Bunting]
once said that his retirement is the same as a retired boxer. Every time
he goes back in
the ring it costs more. Since my so-called retirement I have been kindly
commissioned a
few times. It was actually good for business.
Vuk Cosic: Right. You just said that you work on commissions and secret
projects.
Why does that sound strange to me?
Vuk Cosic: Because you met me before and surely remember that I make a
distinction
between art and commissions. That's why. And I don't know if I am in a
mood to explain
that. Is that OK with you?
Vuk Cosic: If you insist. But let's stay a bit then with your projects.
What kind of work
are you doing? I mean, since you said that net.art is over, and that you
are out of it.
Vuk Cosic: Come on. The stuff I do on commission is online creative acts.
I have done a
thing for the National Museum here that was the most advanced piece of
work I've done
so far. If it had been done a couple of years ago and not in the Slovene
language it
would have created quite a stir, I believe. Actually it is good that you
reminded me, I
should document that work so that it can be displayed sometime.
Vuk Cosic: OK, you made me curious, now tell us what the work was about.
Vuk Cosic: I thought you would never ask. First let me tell you about
the context because
the work was very context driven. In December 2000 Slovenia celebrated
the 200th
anniversary of the birth of its most important poet who was involved in
the
mid-nineteenth century national resurrection or whatever it is called.
His name was
Prešeren and his contribution was in creating the most complex and
advanced poetry
written in Slovene. That was the way to take Slovenia into the family
of Europe's cultured
nations. He was said to have captured the spirit of the Slovene nation.
The central exhibition with which the nation celebrated the anniversary
was held in the
National Museum. They took the super precious manuscripts out of the vaults
and put on
a generally glamorous mainstream show. Somehow it happened that the organizers
of
the show had the idea of asking me to create a piece of work that would
offer a
counterpoint to the classical show. I did the following: first I took
the stream of search
words that the Slovene web surfers type continuously in the Mat'kurja
web portal that is
the central site in Slovenia and happens to be the project of my web development
firm.
This stream was then displayed in the exact same layout as the first edition
of Prešeren's
Sonnets, only dynamic. The whole thing was projected onto the wall above
the
manuscripts and first editions. The result was that you had this moving
poetry
containing approximately three really direct porn keywords in each two
verses. It was
quite obnoxious. Great.
So I captured the spirit. What do you think?
Vuk Cosic: It sounds like fun. What does it remind me of? Were there any
reactions?
Vuk Cosic: Oh no, this country is not really the home of the dialogue
in arts. Anything
goes, and all are happy not to give opinions. The only public dialogue
happens when one
of the two and a half consiglieres want a piece of some cake. The work
in question – I
didn't tell you the name, it was Nation-Culture, to be read as a minus
and not as a
simple dash – was done a short time after I had the tremendous fortune
to meet Natalie
Jeremienko and see a demo of her work. It was all about the visualisation
of dataflows.
It blew me away.
Vuk Cosic: Even though you are the guest I will have to ask you now not
to go into
other artist's work too much as I am sure that the readers would appreciate
it more
if we would stick to the few other things I am still planning to ask you.
I hope you
don't mind.
Vuk Cosic: In fact I do mind. But let's see what might be these other
things you wanted
to talk to me about.
Vuk Cosic: Please forgive my nerve, it is so rarely that we talk that
I simply have to
insist. So, the next thing that I believe would be of interest to our
readers is the
question of influences in your work. Which artists or even non-artists
do you think
have left the most indelible marks in your own development?
Vuk Cosic: Now you are making fun of me, right?
Vuk Cosic: Yes, and you are a smart man to notice it. No kidding now,
would you like
to continue from where I interrupted you? You were trying to tell us about
Natalie
Jeremienko.
Vuk Cosic: Yes, I believe that her solo work and the work that she did
with the Bureau of
Inverse Technologies is the art of the future. But maybe we really shouldn't
go further
into that. Let the readers do their own bit of research.
Vuk Cosic: Would you mind if we would go back a little? I would like to
push our talk
in the direction of net.art. Do you think that there are ideas or influences
that net.art
has offered to the development of the human species that are worth mentioning?
Vuk Cosic: Now that is one very ambitious proposition. I am afraid that
the answer is no.
For a brief moment there was this electric mixture of aclimate of innovation
and of being
advanced – advanced as that dead American theorist said. But now
it's all gone. And
don't get me wrong here – I am not trying to be bitter or anything
– things just have
their natural life span. When I see net.artists of today I only notice
the talk about
commissions, shows, festivals and mainstream art media. Honestly, a few
years ago our
focus was on inventing a new way of doing art. And on doing it alone,
without
interference from the military, the police or curators. And we were also
doing it for
ourselves. And it worked. The attitude was very, very different.
So to answer your question, I believe that net.art was very similar to
most of the
avant-garde sparks in the last hundred and thirty years. We added a little
maintenance
fuel to the idea of intellectual and creative independence of the individual.
My hope is
that the effort we invested will not go undocumented and I am thinking
of good ways of
doing that right now. And then in some time –maybe as soon as this
winter – there will
be some new line of thought that will benefit from some dimension in our
work that may
have even been insignificant to us. Now that I really see how the history
of art is
composed I can offer a word with which I name the above thought –
preposterity. I sure
don't envy your translator.
Vuk Cosic: It is getting late. I think we should find a way to slowly
finish now. Do you
feel like sending a special message to our readers?
Vuk Cosic: That depends on who they are. But let's do another thing. My
phone number is
+386 41 706 207. Why don't your readers call me, and we will talk more.
I find that much
more satisfying than printed dialogues.